tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955681.post8264196673396240643..comments2024-03-20T18:38:31.327-05:00Comments on Havolim: The Kingdom of David, or the Kingdom of Yishai?Eliezer Eisenberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955681.post-6701196350327060412012-04-24T21:04:10.778-05:002012-04-24T21:04:10.778-05:00Yes, pashtus it was a way to denigrate him, as we ...Yes, pashtus it was a way to denigrate him, as we find Kalev did when referring to Moshe Rabbeinu as Ben Amram. But maybe it was a reference to what they knew was the source of his claim to malchus, the power that made him a real threat.Eliezernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955681.post-18799304139670713262012-04-24T20:33:36.123-05:002012-04-24T20:33:36.123-05:00I noticed in the haftarah of machar chodesh that S...I noticed in the haftarah of machar chodesh that Shaul constantly refers to David as "Ben Yishai" while Yehonasan uses his name. Was Shaul just doing it distance himself from David and show that they are not on a first name basis?chaim b.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955681.post-41233051369137576982012-04-24T12:42:57.779-05:002012-04-24T12:42:57.779-05:00lesser- I want to point out that at one stage the ...lesser- I want to point out that at one stage the Gemara there (18) says that even if the dead have no direct knowledge of worldly events, they do understand and are interested in news that is brought to them by the more recently deceased. It may be that this is not true according to all opinions there, because if you take the passuk in Koheles (9:5) והמתים אינם יודעים מאומה literally, they know nothing at all, as the Maharsha there explains.Eliezer Eisenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955681.post-84128836425928908542012-04-23T18:53:28.633-05:002012-04-23T18:53:28.633-05:00While I appreciate the previous anonymous' res...While I appreciate the previous anonymous' resolution to the sifsosav dovevos issue, I would rather suggest the following: The tzad of the gemara which states that the deceased don't know/care about the events of this world does state that the nishama does feel the pain of the decay of the physical body down here. Considering that schar is greater than onesh, it should be a kal v'chomer that the nishama should enjoy the pleasure of the physical guf "saying" his words of Torah. So, <b> perhaps </b>, the sifsosav dovevos is merely how Hashem chooses to reward the talmid chacham who has taught talmidim who continue to say over his Torah in his name.lesser unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955681.post-58032110801248481522012-04-23T18:43:52.787-05:002012-04-23T18:43:52.787-05:00In response to the last anonymous, assuming that y...In response to the last anonymous, assuming that you are correct, why was is necessary for Moshe Rebbeinu to have the "problematic background" of his parents being a marriage which would fall under the issur of ariyos (after matan Torah)lesser unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955681.post-22646137692901924252012-04-20T16:32:34.119-05:002012-04-20T16:32:34.119-05:00As much as I respect "Rav AL", I think h...As much as I respect "Rav AL", I think he has it backwards. Just as it is a benefit to a Melech to have something problematic in his background to guard against conceit another guard against conceit is to have a father who was a much greater tzaddik. It is hard to be conceited when must strive hard to come anywhere near the madreiga if one's father.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955681.post-19868736924295397072012-04-19T18:01:06.825-05:002012-04-19T18:01:06.825-05:00Re Barzilai 10:54 PM
That's not quite what the...Re Barzilai 10:54 PM<br />That's not quite what the Pachad Yitzchok says, but the misunderstanding is not germane to this discussion. <br />I note this to assure that Rav Hutner's dovevos bakever are not too pithy and emphatic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955681.post-7778447124824632422012-04-19T17:24:31.731-05:002012-04-19T17:24:31.731-05:00lesser unknown: the ambiguity can be resolved sim...lesser unknown: the ambiguity can be resolved simply. The reason that in shamayim the neshamos [may not be/are not] aware of earthly events is that they have no kesher to the mundane. However, they are aware of torah at the level of pure ruchniyus.<br /><br />Knowing you morer or lesser, I anticipate your replying that the entry into Eretz Yisroel was ruchniyus. However, for whatever reason, the avos were concerned with the fulfillment of the gashmiyus of knisa l'Aretz also. We see the same thing by bizas mitrayim to fulfill the promise of rechush gadol to AAA"H. Of course Avraham understood that it was referring to matan torah, but I am certain you are aware of mashal of the Dubner Maggid.<br /><br />Again, knowing you morer or lesser, I know that you are thinking - how could the Avos be aware of the spiritual effects of knisa la'Aretz and not the gashmiyus reality thereof. <br /><br />Consider the shira of the frog: Baruch Shem... As the Shiurei Da'as explains, the croaking of frogs is actually the manifestation in olam hazah of that shiras hamelochim - albeit "slightly" constricted at each descent as it reaches us in the sub-sub-basement. But it is a one-on-one mapping.<br /><br />However, while every physical reality/action has mappings on the higher olamos, at the highest levels it may not be evident what the original source of a given spiritual creation was/is. Thus it would be possible for the Avos to know that the spiritual consummation of Klal Yisroel and Eretz Yisroel had occured without it affecting their awareness of the mundane issue of the fulfillment of the promise to the avos.<br /><br />With torah, however, there is no distinction between the mundane and the sacred. Every physical action involved in learning is itself pure ruchniyus, and apprehended at the highest levels - even at the level of tchiyas hamaysim [dovevos ba'kever]. <br /><br />Of course this follows more the shita of tosafos rather than Rashi on the ma'aseh of Avuha diShmuel and the question of mina yad'a.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955681.post-21181939066792762502012-04-19T16:55:53.388-05:002012-04-19T16:55:53.388-05:00Whether or not one who is niftar is able to know (...Whether or not one who is niftar is able to know (or cares to know) what goes on in this world is discussed in the 3rd perek of Berachos. And if memory serves, the gemara doesn't prove one way or the other. To the extent that according to the opinion that they don't know, Moshe Rabbeinu had to tell the avos that Klal Yisroel was about to enter Eretz Yisroel. (according to the other opinion, he was commanded to tell them for his benefit). <br />I can maneuver out of your raya of sifsosav dovevos, however, I would like to give it more thought, since your simpler understanding is more appealing. Regardless, it would have to be reconciled with the other tzad in Berachos.lesser unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955681.post-46558791915961196812012-04-19T08:45:11.161-05:002012-04-19T08:45:11.161-05:00I received a communication explaining how the Pach...I received a communication explaining how the Pachad Yitzchak relates:<br /><br />He shows that the kochos of the son in certain respects may<br />be so inherited/derivative from the father that they are attributed<br />solely to the father [habayis l'dovid, succas dovid]. Similarly,<br />there are kochos in moshiach which are not traced back to Dovid but to Yishai.Enoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955681.post-53910061868528417992012-04-18T22:55:26.310-05:002012-04-18T22:55:26.310-05:00And lesser- just because a guy is dead doesn't...And lesser- just because a guy is dead doesn't mean he doesn't know whats going on, especially when what's going on is a continuation of what he began and set into motion. Veha raya, sifsosav dovevos,Eliezer Eisenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955681.post-17778954379668203012012-04-18T22:54:21.554-05:002012-04-18T22:54:21.554-05:00I was at the Kollel and saw Rav Hutner's ma...I was at the Kollel and saw Rav Hutner's ma'amar, number 68 in Pesach, as said. He talks about how Dovid enabled Shlomo's accomplishments through his mesiras nefesh, a mesiras nefesh that Shlomo, by his very essence, could not duplicate, although Shlomo's very essence was made possible through his father's mesiras nefesh. The same with Moshe Rabbeinu, that even though it is Toras Hashem, it is called Toras Moshe because Moshe was moser nefesh for it. He also talks of the two kinds of kiyum mitvah, kiyum per se, and kiyum of mitzvos as manifestations of limud hatorah, and he says that the latter reached its apex in the Midbar, and the former in the time of Shlomo.<br /><br />He doesn't address the main issue I raised in the post, though.Eliezer Eisenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955681.post-58528296717860599302012-04-18T19:09:26.260-05:002012-04-18T19:09:26.260-05:00Lesser, thank you for the thoughtful he'ara. ...Lesser, thank you for the thoughtful he'ara. <br /><br />Anonymous, do I own a Pachad Yitzchak? No, I don't. So thanks for nothing. <br /><br />Actually, the kollel down the block has one. I will find time to check it out, bl'n, AND TENDER A REPORT ON THE CONTENT. Oh, did my caps lock get stuck?Eliezernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955681.post-61863704788756208642012-04-18T19:03:17.051-05:002012-04-18T19:03:17.051-05:00I would argue with Rav MJ's premise that "...I would argue with Rav MJ's premise that "If one sees that what one has achieved expresses itself through his child, that the child embodies what he have fought for and earned through his hard effort, when you see your life's work resonating through your children and amplified through the ages, it becomes far more precious." On the grounds that both Amrom and David were nifter before they were able to see the respective gadlus of their children.<br />Instead I would suggest that this is not a reward system, rather a cause and effect. The "natural" effect of living a life of tzidkus is that one's children will have a greater potential for spiritual greatness (greater even than the parents potential), which is caused by both growing up in such a home and (perhaps) simply having the "spiritual dna" of such a tzaddik. Which is why ALL of Yishai's children were in the running for malchus. Of course, only the potential is greater, even having Yitzchak for a father and Rivka for a mother, and growing up in that home did not take away Esav bitachon to become an Esav.lesser unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955681.post-19054832962303886192012-04-18T15:58:01.239-05:002012-04-18T15:58:01.239-05:00related very stronly: Pachad Yitzchok Pesach 68. ...related very stronly: Pachad Yitzchok Pesach 68. Which also gives an amazing interpretation of Shir Hashirim Kodshei Kodoshim.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com