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Wednesday, November 17, 2021

A Puzzling Thought from Reb Akiva Eiger on Mashiv HaRuach

OC 114:5

בימות הגשמים אם לא אמר מוריד הגשם מחזירין אותו.

Reb Akiva Eiger there, sk 5

מחזירים אותו. נלע"ד בליל שבת אם שכח לומר משיב הרוח דאין מחזירי' דהא אם התפלל רק מעין שבע יצא כדאית' בסי' רס"ח במג"א סקט"ו אף בברכות מעין שבע אינו מזכיר גשם א"כ במה שהתפלל סדר התפלה כראוי רק שלא הזכיר גשם הא לא גרע ממעין שבע וצל"ע לדינא:

So, he says it may be that if you forget Mashiv HaRuach Friday night, you don't repeat Shmoneh Esrei. Proof - since you can be yotzei Shmoneh Esrei Friday night by listening to the Mei'ein Sheva, and the Mei'ein Sheva does not mention Mashiv HaRuach, you see that Mashiv Haruach is not essential for the nusach of Shmoneh Esrei Friday night.  (I've seen this brought lehalacha, because Reb Akiva Eiger's צריך לי עיון is plenty to create a safek brachos.)

My question: Why would this be true? Why would missing Mashiv HaRuach for six months mean that you weren't yotzei Shmoneh Esrei, and punkt Friday night it doesn't matter.

The truth is, it's not really a kashe on Reb Akiva Eiger. Once Reb Akiva Eiger pointed out that Mei'ein Sheva does not include Mashiv, and that you're yotzei with Mei'ein Sheva itself, then the question is, if Mei'ein Sheva is really a tefilla gemura, why doesn't it contain Mashiv Haruach? It should!

(Please do not tell me "But what about הביננו?" Havineinu is said after the full nusach of the first three, including Mashiv, and followed by the full nusach of the last three.)

Maybe there's something different about Friday night, but I doubt it, because aderaba, rainfall davka Friday (and Wednesday) night is most propitious. Taanis 23 - 

גשמיכם בעתם בלילי רביעיות ובלילי שבתות, שכן מצינו בימי שמעון בן שטח שירדו להם גשמים בלילי רביעיות ובלילי שבתות עד שנעשו חטים ככליות ושעורים כגרעיני זיתים ועדשים כדינרי זהב 

Maybe there's something about ויכולו that alludes to Geshem. If there is, I haven't found it. Yes, the following pesukim mention that no rain had fallen before Adam davenned, but that is not in Vayechulu.

So I'm stuck. I'd appreciate your thoughts.

UPDATE:

The Reb Akiva Eiger is really not well known, so it was a real surprise when Rav Bukspan came up with a tshuva from Rav Wosner exactly on this topic. 

Here is the question.

Someone mistakenly said Ha'el hakadosh in his quiet Shmoneh Esrei, and it was suggested that he doesn't have to repeat because of Reb Akiva Eiger. 

As far as Hamelech, as Rav Wosner says, Reb Akiva Eiger's raya for Geshem is not fully applicable to the question of Hamelech. It is true that Reb Akiva Eiger's opinion in 583:3 is that if you say Ha'eil instead of Hamelech in מעין שבע you do not have to repeat it, but mei'ikar hadin you are supposed to say Hamelech, unlike Geshem, which does not appear there at all. So even if you wouldn't have to repeat מעין שבע if you say Ha'Eil hakadosh, it could be this is because there is a kullah in מעין שבע to the extent of not requiring repetition bedieved, but that does not apply to the personal Shmoneh Esrei.  Whereas the fact that Geshem is not there at all indicates that mentioning Geshem is not important on Friday night, not even in the personal Tefilla.

Rav Wosner also addresses the question of Geshem. He says that first, Reb Akiva Eiger's idea is very hard to accept - it is a puzzlement.  He is docheh the raya;  and I have to say that his dichui of Reb Akiva Eiger's raya is not very convincing. Who cares that this is the nusach? הא גופא קשה, why is the nusach like that?? Then he says that it seems from the Biur Halacha at the end of רס"ח that he holds not like Reb Akiva Eiger.  


He paskens that you can not rely on Reb Akiva Eiger, certainly not on Hamelech, but also not on Geshem, and you have to repeat Shmoneh Esrei.

6 comments:

micha berger said...

And, Havineinu is only for summer, because it lacks טל ומטר לברכה. (Not a problem in Nusach EY's version.)

R Bibi bar Abayei (Berekhos 29a), Rif (19a), Rosh 4:13, Rambam H' Tefillah 2:3, Tur OC 110, and SA se'if 1.

micha berger said...

Oh, EY version... Y-my Taanis 10a:
הביננו רצה תשובתינו סלח לנו גואלינו רפא חוליינו ברך שנותינו.

אמר רבי חגיי: אם היו ימות גשמים אומר "גשמי ברכה". אם היו טללים אומר "טללי ברכה"

כי מפוזרים אתה מקבץ ותועים עליך לשפוט ועל הרשעים תשית ידך וישמחו כל חוסי בך בבנין עירך ובחידוש בית מקדשך כי טרם נקרא אתה תענה כאמור (ישעיהו ס״ה:כ״ד) והיה טרם יקראו ואני אענה עוד הם מדברים ואני אשמע ברוך ה' כי שמע קול תחנוני

בא"י שומע תפילה

Eliezer Eisenberg said...

Cool, a Havineinu you could use all year.
So it does have Geshem in Birkas Hashanim, and in the winter, it would have morid hagashem in Gevuros.

micha berger said...

I don't know what you mean about "it would have morid hageshem", because Birkhas Gevuros isn't printed with Havineinu. But I presume the Yerushalmi would have had "umurid hageshem" because that's what is in the Cairo Geniza and other snippets of various nusachos of EY.

On a totally different subject... Until about 250 years ago, there was a lot more Mishnaic Hebrew in nusach Ashkenaz, as there still is in Sepharadi nusachos. Then publishing came around, and maskilim who thought they knew enough diqduq to "fix" our nusach. Odds are we all said "vesein chelqeinu beSorasakh, sab'einu mituvach..." as Sepharad still does. Very few "anachu"s, mostly "anu". Etc...

And no final form words. It originally was "borei peri hagefen" in Ashkenaz too.

The only nusach that always was more Tanakhi Hebrew was Bal'adi Teimani. "Bori peri hajafen".

Now... That means that the whole question of whether "morid hageshem" or "hagashem" was only after we ended up davening in a Hebrew where a comma would change the word to "gashem". So... In the days of the Yerushalmi, it was either "hageshem", or the Teianim are right.

micha berger said...

One serious problem with "a Havineinu you could use all year." I live centuries after we got to the point where EVERY community's traditional nusach is derived from Rav Amram Gaon. We may argue over details, but קבלו עליהם כל ישראל some basics. Can someone today adopt a nusach that doesn't share that lineage?

This would require a whole long discussion about halakhah, pesaq, when is a shita dead...

Eliezer Eisenberg said...

What I meant was that Havineinu only replaces the middle section. You still have to say the entire regular first three brachos and the entire last three.